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In Reply to: Re: Warning: this is as long & rambling as the weather is bad out posted by Jo on January 09, 2005 at 14:39:11:
A clarification: for many children born and raised in the group, in a certain way (before the analytical kicks in over the emotional) ALL the adults were perpetrators, some by actually committing the acts, others by aiding and abetting. In other words, if anybody had just "seen" the Davidito book they are guilty of being a "bystander" and not having done much to alert/stop or attempt to stop the abuse, or at least GET OUT themselves.
When you are a child growing up you don't think in the terms you have expressed above. When you are a child and the MOST disempowered, anybody who "seems" an adult (even the Shepherd Teen who is in charge) is the responsible one. Children of battered women have told their mothers that they "understand" their plight, but technically STILL hold them responsible. These children are right in their own ways, because their mothers who were NOT the perpetrators failed to protect them FROM perpetrators. The battered women are also right in their own plight.
HOWEVER, they do owe to their children an explanation, an apology and the effort of trying to help them heal while they themselves have to heal. It cuts both ways in these cases, but you cannot reach a point of healing unless you have the guts to go to the CORE of these issues, and what you find there is no perfect solutions but hard work for the possibility of a mended present or future.
Things is, it is not as simple as you describe it. The shades of gray so well described or hinted at by Refugee are important to remember. The problem is that delving into this topic as deeply as we should would probably go beyond the scope and possibility of this board. THAT is why I say that specific individuals have to deal with the specificity of what they have lived and start with the people who were around them and that they directly affected. It is a start.
Lastly, while I see some points in what you say, I would like to remind you of the fact that it is true that AFTER THE FACT everybody becomes "a virgin." Aside from the people who apologized publicly, have you ever seen anyone come out and say YES, I molested such and such, yes, I used to take this kid in the bathroom and give them 40 swats for the most stupid infraction and I'm not sleeping at night when I think about that? Have you ever seen apologies that detailed some of the funkiest stuff you can imagine?
Have you ever seen anybody post, "Well after all I really got to express some of my hidden sadomasochistic tendencies in that environment." I clearly remember acts that were SADISTIC, on the part of people who were around me. Period. BUt at that time reality was not "framed" in such a way. There was no concept of "sadistic" or "abuse." As in many fundamentalist closed environments words shape reality in a different way and what you don't want to see or acknowledge does not have a NAME. It is quite effective in disorienting people. Try reading some of George Lakoff 's analysis of how words and talking about some issues in a certain way distorts reality and frames it in a way that may be very different from the substance. Let us say one party that really wants certain benefits from cutting taxes from the wealthy start using the expression "tax RELIEF." After a while, when the landscape has been already framed by that expression, when you use the word tax relief even people who will have NO RELIEF whatsoever from that tax change will automatically "feel" that it is good to have tax RELIEF. Who would not want relief? =)
The point is to REFRAME the issue using the proper words (OTHER words) and going right to the FACTS of what happens or happened. A lot of the shades of gray are also in the words at our disposal in talking about the cult experience. That is why in cults cult lingo is so important, because if frames reality in the way that is desired by leadership.
Saying everybody was hurt, we all blah blah, all suffered hurt is true in some ways, but does not do the subject justice in the least.
And even asking a question (the one in capital letters) like the one you ask shows a bit of naivete on your part, or perhaps not a clear idea of what many SG's (and some adults) had to deal with and what they know about a lot of the adults who now move around these boards. We cannot be TOTALLY open on these boards, remember that. There are reasons for that.
You left early I suppose, and your children managed to do better because you got out earlier, and that is good. But maybe for this reason you cannot fathom the Machiavellian intricacies that make the fabric of the shades of gray that Refugee talks about. Integrity demands at the very least an attempt to delve into those shades of gray you seem to know little about.
