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In Reply to: Re: interesting post on Moving On posted by From Banshee on September 08, 2004 at 16:59:41:
In some ways, the fact that you were born into the group gave you a different orientation that allowed you to evaluate things from a very different perspective and with a very different set of circumstances than those that joined via recruitment. The sexploitation was not in place when we were recruited. Yes there was a control factor and at the time I joined people went nowhere without a buddy. There was 24 hr indoctrination incl. sleep deprivation, poor diet, purging sessions and "inspiration" which was the part that released the stress from the other processes. I don't expect you to understand that if you are not wanting to know about it.
btw, that last quote was from me, and I do believe it is factual. I also believe it was made in a context that did not dismiss or deny SG experiences as a whole.
Here is one common misunderstanding between generations- for some.
"You had the opportunity to know what a normal family is like. We didn't."
I believe that many people that are sucked in by cults are vulnerable in one way or another. My story is that I experienced extreme abuse pre-family, and the family that I joined via recruitment was far safer by comparison. And Berg was not in the forefront at the time. No letters were yet written.
I do not deny having seen the Davidito book. I will say that it triggered my core that was revolted by it. Berg explained it away using his own sexual abuse by a maid saying that was all so very pleasant and acted as if it was a good thing to do. He drew from sexperts all over the globe in societies past and present and used their comparative cultures to try and normalize his sick doctrines. I left when kids were still mostly toddlers and babies with some families having primary school age kids.
I got dealt with, humiliated and crushed many times in the family. That does not in any way excuse what happened to you. But then, I also have to say I was NOT AROUND when what happened to you occurred.
It is factual that I never witnessed any intercourse or fellatio occurring between adults and children. When I realized there were hints that sexploitation and separating the kids from parents at early ages and sending them to schools or camps was on the way. I left. I was burnt out. My frame of mind was that God would kill us all for leaving his will but I was so burnt out that seemed better so I risked the flight, a subject of frequent nightmares prior to leaving, crashing so God could take us out like the great cleaner in the sky.
I had to be out awhile to gain perspective after yrs of breakings and humiliations. I know for example that my own sons did not experience anything like most SGs did because we got out before that. But they did experience pain. And you are right, when dealing with those people that I am responsible for, as an adult and a parent I did need to stand back and hear them out on their hurts and losses without any "buts". That is very hard to do to be honest. Sometimes we had to stop. But in stages we got thru it all and are very close now. The Family is a very vague memory for them as they have grown up pretty "normal".
What I do not understand is categorically vilifying FGs as your oppressors and abusers. Perhaps that is because I left when I did. I don't know.
Since we are posting, adult to adult here, and many SG adults as well as FG adults have had time to deal with their past issues even if it is with the absence of a perpetrator, is it reasonable to you that as exers and no longer a part of that group, some for many years, that maybe just maybe the anger gets misdirected when it is aimed at a group of people and not at the individual perps? Some did stand up at great consequence to themselves. Others did not for fear of dire consequences that would ultimately hurt their own family more than saying something for which they would be separated and condemned.
That being said, is there any room for dialogue between generations? Is there a possibility that we could learn much about each other and the whys and hows and results of what we went thru NOW THAT WE ARE EXERS and adults here, without dirt throwing or taking a few sentences out as examples of what is wrong with exer FG posts, without the rest of the text? And the surrounding texts that brought it up? Do you want to be understood? I think I understand to some degree because of my own "normal" system background where I was sexually abused, humiliated and tortured. Those triggers are what caused me to jump out when I did. Even against the fears of imminent death for disobedience. But I could not bear what was coming. I also had no clue how bad it would get because I was long gone from the cult when much happened. I had to find out via reading your stories. So while some FG may feel it necessary to apologize for being uncles and aunties, I never was one. All that started after I left. I reported and verified what I knew after I left. There is a big difference between wanting to support people from either generation because you have some understanding of the pain and you want to see people helped, and many of one generation categorically demanding reparations and vilifying all FGs because we got into the cult to begin with, regardless of how different it was at the time. I am reading a book that has been posted about called "Wild Swans" by Jung Chang who grew up as an SG in the thought reform movement of Chairman Mao. It is astonishing the comparisons to the cult and the control and insanity of the movement. I don't know if you would ever consider reading it, but if you did, I would like to hear your thoughts on it. In the meantime I can sincerely say that I am sorry for what you experienced in the group, though I was not there for it. Those that were there for it, in the family at that time, I am sure have perceptions that do help in understanding the nature of the full beast of the family.
In the "normal world" in most countries child/adult sex is illegal and it is certainly the responsibility of any adult to say no to a minor even if they asked for sex because they were so sexualized and abused. It would further be the responsibility of the adult to get that child help. Part of the help that child would get would be vindication for their abuses should they wish to pursue it in a court of law, or at least validation for what they went thru. i have no doubt about the veracity of ALL of the stories SGs have printed on movingon or elsewhere.
I saw enough to know that could come and that at least some had started in the home of Berg before I left.
The buts I may post are because I am not one of your abusers and because I am out of the cult for a long time now and also because I do understand what FG went thru.
I don't understand what it devolved into because I wasn't there. But I am sure it happened. I have made my peace with my family of origin. I don't have other people to apologize to. That does not mean I can't be sorry for what happened. But I don't owe reparations. I don't even want to offer any to people that categorize me as a crazed sex pervert that joined a sex cult as if I had been in the Manson family or something. NOPE. not what I joined. Sure it got real real bizarre. Berg did well, blaming it all on the hippies. It seems many SG have swallowed that lie. Because most FG that were in when I was recruited were idealistic, or damaged, vulnerable and the Family was this candy coated pill that would take away the problems of the world incl. mine. I did not know it was cyanide at the core or I would have run like hell the other way..
