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In Reply to: Re: This is not about you posted by Joseph on February 08, 2004 at 01:03:56:
First, I appreciate your setting the chronologcal order of events straight. Things can appear differently to you and me, and sometimes these details make for all the difference.
Now here are some details I want to spell out that make all the difference for me, which if you accept, might make you have to look at the chronology and my role in this differently.
One factor: I don't read the boards every few minutes. When I come back after a period of time, I find the board full of messages. Most of them aren't mine. I said before I know you know who I am, and in case you didn't I put WC with Coordinator #1 once so you wouldn't miss it. Early on, I consisitently put #1 on my handle, because I knew there would be different reactions from all the coordinators. So no, I have not been jumping in and out of anonymous "Coordinator" handles to "insult you and Jane" in some "cowardly" manner.
So from here on, please preface everything I say with "My (WC's) perspective is..." because I don't control what the other coordinators post.
Another detail, Curious also started off with a question, and request for information, which developed into a full-blown discussion, mostly in part to other posters, such as you among others.
Another detail, I really don't know what the nuances and semantics are when you say you're "not speaking on Anneke's behalf." Even if I go back on the boards and try to be open and rethink things based on what you say, you appear to me, to have done plenty of speaking for Anneke.
Another detail, if you choose to insult us - which you seem very intent on - the private club extension logic can be applied to several sites including your own. When we touch on things that aren't our business, but NDN's private internal info, most people including me, have a sense of self-regulation and do not press on after a certain point.
There are a lot of internal going-ons at NDN which are very confoundingly mysterious and I realised early on not to try to get in on NDN's politics, nor try to understand the logic of NDN's preferences, where you seemed to extend a distinct favouritism reserved for some very abusive people, as long as they were in your camp. Before Barney quit NDN, it's not like nobody tried and tried to ask questions so we could understand the mysterious nature of the extension of the Laurel "private club."
My perspective is also that you constantly misrepresent yourself when you say all you do is answer. My perspective is that your method of getting involved in discussions is to gain the upper hand by diverting attention from one thing into other issues, and get people so busy answering to a whole range of previously unresolved complexities. You talk about understanding the nuances between "linked" and "separate," yet freely mix issues are linked but distinctly separate, especially your unsettled scores.
The focus can be about betrayal and intimidation, and you can mix it up with copyright issues, which really upset you personally, when we went against your advice 2 years ago.
The focus can be about betryal and intimidation and you go, "well you guys seemed to say bring it on, so why should you be upset if Anneke says sue?"
The focus can be about betrayal and you can minimize on it, as just "words." When we say it's not just words, you put the ball in our court. When we elaborate, you determine ahead of time what our adverse reaction will be if Anneke shows up. And that is classic meddling, in my book, I will explain further.
So you do much more than just answer posts, I'm afraid. At one point you didn't know who the anonymous Coordinator was so you threw in "BALLS" and then "panties" to press some buttons and get a reaction and a fix on the gender of the Coordinator.
When you continually draw focus away from what people are actually concerned about (Anneke's apology), into things that are your own linked but separate, unsettled issues; and when your obvious method is to divert attention, the net effect is you appear to be in it for your own agenda. When Anneke finally shows up, and you don't automatically drop out, it reinforces that idea.
So the detail I'm hoping you will understand is, nobody is trying to control what you think or say either, the bigger focus was about Anneke vs exFamily.org, not exFamily vs. Joseph, yet you're still commenting "it's still early, just wait"
And that brings me to the point I was trying to make about when it becomes meddling and interfering.
My objective was as I stated: no expectaions, apology would be nice, talking would heal, and now Anneke has shown up and apologised. But your main objective now appears to be getting yourself a Mongolian hedge: all your bets are equally placed so that no matter what we do, it's important that you get to prove we are wrong about at least something - you described it as "painting us in a corner." It seems really important for you to get yourself in a place where you can say "I told you so."
Well have your fill, but remember that no matter what, now that Anneke is here, things have changed. You are now on the outisde looking in, on a matter that can only be settled between Anneke and exFamily.org.
"My observations from yesterday made it very difficult for Coordinators from this board to attack Anneke when she did apologize. I know that
must be frustrating."
You flatter yourself too much. I have been trying to say over and over, what you see on the boards isn't all there is, and I can't share everything I want to when they are private emails, or when they are about incidents which are best left out of the public eye, for Anneke's benefit, for the benefit of reaching this point of reconciliation.
Now I suppose you've found more "lies" in my post? And I "provoked" and "baited" you once again? I was just trying to answer to your points, as a courtesy - I'm not in it for winning arguments, but for clarifying positions. So stop when you have had the last word so and feel sufficently "left alone" and unbaited and unprovoked. I am only asking for the final steps of this matter between Anneke and exFamily.org to be left alone, so we can get where we're going. You get to watch and comment and criticise, OK?
This request with the understanding, I don't control what you think or write: I'd appreciate the courtesy of "perspectives" instead of "lies" as we are not little 10 year olds running around lying to cover our asses.
To answer your question about the deleted post, I'm looking into it, I just got here. I will post an answer as soon as I know more.
So this was Coordinator #1, WC, not any other coordinators, OK? I'll probably come back in 24 hours and find myself diverting attention yet once again to you, instead of writing to Anneke. *Sigh!*
