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In Reply to: Re: Collective guilt, collective punishment posted by Slinky on July 05, 2007 at 11:48:24:
Both generations survived a lot of hell. Yes one was born into it. The other was blind-sighted into it because it did not present like Hitler and the Nazi's but presented as a missionary organization that was about personal witnessing, had a goal that seemed good. The core was rotten and how were teens and people in their early twenties supposed to know?
I think it is more realistic to compare to the Stockholm Syndrome which is described as a factor not just in kidnapping or being held hostage but also being in a cult and for that matter, in a domestic abuse situation.
Being in a cult to me, seems more like a domestic abuse situation where the perp is charming, often seems great, supportive, caring and kind and then the fangs come out, but not before systematically taking more and more control of the victims life.
Responsibility comes in taking charge of ones own life, identifying the beast, and avoiding making the same mistakes.
I think it's great to make amends where possible for anyone hurt in that past, but I feel it is wrong to compare all FG to Berg or being like him or wanting the abuses that came about in time.
I think also it would help for all sides whether one G, two G or three G to understand each "G's" own unique relationship to the cult and abuses survived, in many cases abuses committed in that environment.
For FG, having survived losses like separation from family members, breaking up of natural bonding and destruction of a nuclear family, realizing that we weren't really in the last few years, any day to enter into the last seven years on earth as is, constant fear tactics, same used on all G's, believing God was real and could take you out, as in KILL you, for leaving, for disobedience, well- we all were consumed in that cult in varying ways.
I think "Collective guilt, collective punishment" is off the mark. That is my opinion.
No, I am not like the South African whites that oppressed the black native South Africans. I am not like a nazi that supported hitler.
Instead, many, the majority of us left, feeling condemned and out of God's will and wrong for resisting horrific doctrines and having gone thru various kinds of re-indoctrination camps of one kind or another when falling out of line with the family dogma.
I think it is better to support and celebrate getting out and to strive for understanding and I think it is sad that some FG even choose to view themselves as something like the Nazi's.
To me it is as wrong as a battered spouse beating herself up for having been involved with a batterer, or as wrong as having someone like Elizabeth Smart beat herself up for having protected her perpetrator after her "indoctrination" in an isolated environment.
Battered women do not make their batterers and cult survivors do not make their narcissitic personality disordered leaders be the monsters that they are.
Education, therapy, recovery are what ALL survivors of cults deserve.
Any generation.
I am not collectively responsible for what happened in Berg's household or in combos or jumbos that I was never even in or around for. And if I was around, in that cult state of mind, there would be some responsibility, some making amends that would help me personally whether the person could hear it or not.
But making it out like we are Nazi's and sex fiends that couldn't wait to be raped? That's crazy. I think enough is enough.
I want to be supportive to any "G" but it doesn't come easy if I would want to be supportive and then treated like a rapist when I have been raped and never molested a child. Did I spank a child? yes. Was I brutal about it? No.
Society has moved away from spanking and I think that is great. Some still believe in it.
The punishments that were meted out in camps were horrific from what I read. I am glad I was not in when the combos, jumbos and so on started.
Did I see the Davidito book? Yes and I left shortly after but felt I was wrong until I could get my head screwed on straight.
I was severely dealt with for avoidance of things others initiated who had been closer to the top and ended up on far flung fields. all the time feeling I was wrong.
but wrong or not I did protect my kids. Maybe I was lucky to have been dealt with for resisting the first line of abuse with FFing and that kept me on the outer limits.
Oh please, can we support each other and quit with the hammer?
I am sure we all know what we have done wrong in our lives and are able as adults now out of the family for varying periods of time, to regain our own personality and do what we can to rebuild our own lives, our own relationships that have been torn to various degrees, and then to the larger community of survivors as we choose to.
