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In Reply to: I find it astonishing, too posted by Miguel on February 23, 2006 at 23:57:54:
Miguel:
I always retain the same suspicion and question as you apparently do, when I hear of “improvements” in TF. They're especially hard to believe in certain circumstances; but there may be a measure of “truth” on both sides; even with OWK, 8 years after he left TF.; at least physically.
Please bear with me.
To me, it is a manner of the cult protecting the money flow at all times and in all “markets" as a management principle; although the markets vary, as do the localized urgencies to protect TF's fund-gathering capacities in each.
The philosophy of "Follow the Money" is always a good place to start in understanding most societal functions; even that, or more probably especially that, of the locked-in sub-societal structure of an originally Western-based sub-Christian cult.
Viewed as a “product or service” that was marketed and sold, Berg arrived in S. Cal as a child-molester and adulterer, but pushing a sub-Christian product whose actual qualities were hidden, and not the same as the product obtained; but this was not generally understood at first.
It was a non-losing proposition for Berg from his point of view: to “try out the product” you had to first believe Berg’s bastardization of historic Christian discipleship, and then “forsake all”, in care of his nomadic list of Selah addresses at the time. If you "failed" his idea of discipleship, you weren't around to convince others of viewpoint alternative to his.
After joining and passing muster as Berg's kind of follower, you were carefully “thought reformed”; whatever you want to call it. The purpose was never to educate the mind to a full awareness of one being “fully persuaded in [his/her] own mind” inorder to make a fully informed decision, it was to close the deal; very much like recruiting/marshaling an army of believable door-to-door sales people as profitably as possible; at least to the “sales manager”. Berg knew broke people had no financial means to opose him.
What was successfully sold in one market was progressively tried in others.
The “sizzle” was never matched by the supposed “steak” (and I sure wouldn’t call it palatable metaphoric “meat” at all). There was bad press. Revenues waned. As a financial solution guided by an amoral megalomaniacal lust for control, Flirty Fishing and hardcore straight-out prostitution were tried in various markets, with various results, and dropped off at varying rates and for several reasons.
Child sexualization/torture was a "special product" made just for attracting sadists and perverts of various stripe, as well as for retaining obedient but especially manipulably amoral henchmen/henchwomen as control agents/leaders within the cult itself.
The worst Berg-like pervert made the best follower of orders.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there still exist markets where, at this time, ALL the old doctrines are both palatable in and marketable to the differing levels of the general populace as well as to the differing levels of the disciples still retained in and around the cult.
M and P have admitted in writing the invention of “TV Homes” for the express purposes of PR and “Loss and Cost Control”, and there were two target markets.
One was the general public, and another was the various grades of “disciples” following the old and/or current “party line” to various MEASURABLE degrees, with daily self-reporting by EVERY disciple a highly engrained practice, enforced by Victor Camps, rapes, and worse; which are all highly provable to anyone who HONESTLY wants to know.
How about YOU, "OWK"? You're not REALLY as gullible as you now seem; are you?
The cult generated lots of money for a very small oligarchy, and invested heavily in PR, heavier in some markets, and, again, most likely according to measurable funds generated over time.
In the cult’s higher echelons, all the old beliefs and practices are undoubtedly still alive and well; intact from the time of issuance of “revelation” from Berg of old, as well as the machinery now established for the so-called “new wine”, a la LJR, and including highly structured practices of lying to the public and so on, carried on by Zerby and her retinue.
Additionally, there is probably either a written or unwritten doctrine teaching the different levels of lying permitted in communicating with various disciples’ levels, as a sort of “COUNTER-Revolution for Jesus WITHIN the Revolution”; if you will. It’s probably now considered quite “revolutionary” to justify completely LYING to disciples at the lower levels—why not? They did this from the start; didn’t they?.
Mao Tsedong taught this openly in his “Little Red Book”; after all, and Berg was hot for communism for a while; wasn't he?.
And THAT could produce exers who are the PRODUCT and MARKETING tool of having been lied to themselves.
Why not? Ministries of propaganda have done exactly the same thing in many countries around the world for decades; knowing that they could not possibly retain all of their followers all of the time, it is extremely likely that plans were made and executed to purposely misinform those they knew they’d lose.
There was nothing set up to prevent the same thing from happening ON PURPOSE over the years in TF; if only understood as such by top leadership. A lot of the rest of the world has understood it for some time; now. Anybody ever read Macchiavelli's "The Prince"?
Why WOULDN’T TF take advantage of their own measurable attrition rate, with all the stats they habitually mangled, and use it as a tool for their own ends? It makes perfect sense to me that they would.
Are there any high-level exer anecdotes out there on this subject? Or, better, any written proodf, or knowledge of past "Mo' Quotes" on the subject? I'll bet there are both.
Criminal organizations tend to self-perpetuate, and one running a religious con-game, consciously at all levels or no, would be extremely likely to eventually employ such deception.
High level TF leadership is completely amoral. Why would they NOT?
Ergo, it is quite logical to get perfectly convinced people like OWK on these boards who are CONVINCED that life in TF is “New and Improved”, and even a worthy lifestyle.
He’d probably pass a polygraph and everything, but that would not prove TF doesn’t still believe and practice everything they once did, even if not uniformly in every one of their cult outposts.
They are STILL a religious machine that eats people up and spits them out when they are no longer a source of profit and/or an object of absolutely manipulable control; especially sexual, and most especially when it gives top leadership a lavish lifestyle, and the adoration of their well-trained sycophants. That's the addiction of top TFers in a nutshell.
The glaring problem and now big trouble for TF is that boards like this exist, and all of the old Mo Letters, etc., are online now, and completely blow out of the water the idea of a “new and improved” destructive sex cult.
Ask yourself this: what likelihood is there that once heavily habituated sex offenders will reform? Very little to none; according to the professional literature 100% recidivism is near-universal.
Why would any other addictions/habituations to power-motivated behavior, such as highly organized LYING, be any different?
Ergo, it just doesn’t make sense that things are really as OWK claims, even if that’s what he saw from his limited perspective—MANY of us saw DIFFERENTLY, over several years, as well as recently, MANY more recently than the 8 years ago when he said he left. We have the inarguable collective experiences and the official TF lit to prove it.
Perhaps OWK can be believed in the sense of believing that he saw what he was meant to see, but the greater lie accomplished by him, because TF WANTED IT TO, could be public credence that TF has indeed “improved”.
I say it has not, and cannot. If he genuinely believes what he says, it is most likely that that is what leadership intended—“If we know he’s weak, let’s at least use him to our advantage” is their most likely credo.
ALL of the leaders and MOST of the followers are amoral! Duh!
Without FUNDS, TF will cease to exist. They are now too well known in the civilized world, and they no longer have a viable product, that of a sincere and livable true Christianity.
Morals and mores protect societies, and TF is now well known to have neither, even if the rank-and-file DUPES working at pseudo-evangelist BUMMING do seem sincere at first blush—too soon, out comes the revealing Berg merchandise/behavior, and “you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”.
It really will become a matter of marketing in the end, and theirs is doomed. Willingness to supply won't matter; demand is on a straight-down decline; even TF stats show that, and any idiot can read them.
In foreign countries without the Internet, the Muslims will probably kill them for their famous immorality; even the “kings” in those countries couldn’t protect them enough; eventually the imams would win out over the politicians where radicalized Muslims are concerned. "Zero demand".
As for other countries, frankly, a whore is just a whore, and a “religious” one, especially an aging one, is not that special to the average consumer of whoremongering; I am sure. That was only a thrill to Berg and his top leadership.
SGAs are leaving at an AMAZING rate, and it's easier to get younger whores elswhere as well. "Catastrophically decreasing" demand there as well.
TF’s vile immorality is WHO THEY ARE, and will always come out eventually, because people do understand, eventually, that they have been manipulated, and nresent it, and everyone comes from SOME kind of family.
There exist societal pressures which mitigate AGAINST the cult; I am CERTAIN that TF has passed its zenith; thank God.
For instance, there’s a REASON convicts, at least in the Western world, kill child molesters in male prisons, baby murderers in women’s prisons, and so on. Even convicts have families, and hate people whose central motive is to destroy families; plain and simple.
Berg and Zerby saw to it that the central TF doctrine wasn’t even a false Christ, or even an entirely sub-Christian theology.
Berg had already destroyed his little family by the time he got to Huntington Beach, as a molester of Faithy, a bully of his other children, an adulterer, and a false "Christian" uber-manipulator.
That very fact started his little movement and was the central motive for his first BIG revelation of “Old Church New Church”.
The “disciples” who put up with that crap did so BECAUSE he presented it in a way that not only aggrandized Berg, but themselves as well.
Berg’s central product was the central lust of his own dirty little heart: the destruction of the nuclear family in the guise of Christian zeal; which he NEVER HAD.
Summarizing, sex itself markets and sells well, not only OUTSIDE the cult, but within it as well; especially to heavily habituated sex addicts; probably mostly FGAs, but with a good number of still-trapped SGAs as well.
Their just has to be the right mixture of pseudo-Christian good works, along with self-aggrandizement for doing so in the first place, to keep any kind of believable “product” on the shelves for the ”marks”.
“Marks” in TF are “shills, as well, and vice versa.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)
