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In Reply to: Manson posted by Not so sure on January 19, 2006 at 01:41:18:
I personally believe that both Berg and Manson were in touch with the demonic, and that both learned mass manipulation techniques learned socially.
For other exers who either continue as Christians after TF membership, but as "Cessationists" (who don't believe in the real gifts of the Holy Spirit, much less the reality of Satanic/demonic counterfeits), or agnostic/atheistic/New Age exers(I'm sorry if that does sound reductive! It's due to length of necessary explanation of separate terms for each!), that paradigm is obviously seen as non-rational, for both the consideration of godly and/or demonic supernatural phenomena.
But I, and other readers here, do not necessarily see it that way. Please bear with me/us; here on Generation Exers Board. Thanks.
Here are some similarities I’ve noted, from my own TF experience, and from reading heavily over 31+ years about cult phenomena:
Berg brought the short and long cons he learned from his pseudo-evangelist mother. Manson brought the short and long cons he learned in the penal system from an early age.
Berg saw the success and drawing power of the ideological promises of the counterculture, political, spiritual, and sociological, and understood that he could manipulate young people already caught up in these influences that displaced whole families, communities and belief systems formerly held as sound and sacred. His mother taught him he could con regular Christians out of money that legitimately would have gone to support their own families and the churches they already attended, and that Christians could be conned into believing in the legitimacy of the idea that evangelists could be reframed from being self-sacrificing servants to being celebrities worthy of fame and wealth.
Manson learned he could “punk” other men from his jail community into becoming as equally perverted as himself, both sexually and socially as fellow criminals; then he used the same techniques on women as well, including Squeaky Fromme, et al.
Berg learned he could pose as the counterculture’s hippest person EVER, by learning to twist Scripture to his own immediate advantage, and then cannibalized other belief systems as needed:
-by contact over the years with Communist ideology, including how fifth columnist cells were run,
-from Jehovah witnesses in dummying down their followers to limit their contact with real Christians and what the Bible actually taught,
-from the Mormons in the justification by unstable baby Christians of the “necessity” of “another Gospel” and a singular “Endtime prophet” with the authority to supersede Scripture and sound Biblical exegesis, of polygamy and its subjugation of women and feminization and “beta-male” subjugation of males competing with Mormon leadership, and from the educational system in how to reframe “falsely so-called knowledge” and retain “tenure” as an “ultimate authority”.
Similarities here to the formation of L. Ronald Hubbard’s Scientology cult are amazingly similar as well—Berg was a failed middle-aged evangelist when he started his cult; Hubbard was a failed middle-aged science fiction writer when he started his (I PERSONALLY think his work as a writer is crap, as a sci fi aficionado!)—the two men’s followers are so similar they have compared notes and have cooperated in defending their respective cults legally. I could write a very long missive comparing the two cults further, as could many other exers; I am sure!
But, back to Manson and Berg:
Both Berg and Manson were Satanically clever in their use of evil to reproduce themselves in their followers
Berg used the misapplication of understanding about the true historical significance about the temporarily “communal lifestyle” of the Jesus People, which began in 1965 in San Francisco. Jerusalem filled up with Jews from the entire known world for the Feast of Tabernacles, they stayed fifty days and around 8,000 men, plus women and children, became Christians in a very short time, and were taught by the Apostles until they had to go back home, where, as Paul wrote soon thereafter, they “had their own houses” to corrupt the Lord’s Supper in, if that’s what they chose to do. At least that would diminish the number of people committing the same sin at the same possible time, and there would be less chance of “seeing each others’ nakedness”, as the Old Testament warned against.
Manson had an uncanny understanding of what weakened young counterculture wannabes, and made them easy prey for his lust for control of them by any means, and was directly responsible for the death of several people, but manipulated others to do the direct dirty work for him, in order to escape justice. So did Berg.
Berg understood what the Christian life could and should be, but had the same understanding of the young people of the hippie era as did Manson, and the same motives toward them.
Berg’s responsibility for the death of others and the blame-shifting to others whom he manipulated to do his dirty work was almost identical to Manson’s.
Berg is responsible for the death of his son Aaron, as well as his adopted son Ricky Rodriguez, not to mention all of the suicides resulting from the despair caused by his child-sexualization doctrine and practice.
Manson did not use LSD himself, but gave it to his followers, and used its psychotomimetic properties to literally change his followers’ brain chemistry and perception of reality; making further manipulation possible.
Berg’s “absolute society”, in sociological terms, broke down his followers similarly, using other reconditioning and thought reform techniques’ practically every kind possible, in fact.
The actual brain chemistry change documented in Rick Dupuy/Watchman was caused by the abuse perpetrated on him by Berg’s closest followers; the directly resultant despair and cognitive dissonance subsequently caused Watchman’s suicide. So, Berg’s influence was psychotomimetic, as well. The resultant behavior and perceptions mimicked those of a full-blown psychotic.
Manson convinced his followers of the immediacy of a coming race war; “Healter Skelter” (the “heal” version was found on the Tate refrigerator door in blood). Berg used the Christian fundamentalist belief data about the Second Coming for purposes of ensuring a sense of immediacy, producing a loss of rationality in his followers.
I heard somewhere that Manson’s followers are all now either dead or Christians.
I enjoy to no end the social fact of the freedom of TF exers form Berg, to one degree or another, as evidenced on this and other boards. I read somewhere that that numbered at least 30,000 people. Any factual data on that? I thought I read that number on this site.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)
