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In Reply to: Re: James Seemore Invitation posted by Maxx on October 30, 2005 at 06:16:04:
OK, here goes:
I started to post the following here on
Gen eXers, decided not to, and posted on Journeys.
The problem: James avoids answering important questions, I have observed, and drags red herrings across the trail of honest communication.
I'd LOVE to see him and Mr. Lamattery on a show. "James", I say you are a moral, and possibly a physical coward, and could not handle it! Prove me wrong; OK?
Anyway, with apologies to Gen eXer posters who take offense at the expressions a Christian--please overlook that, and focus on the conttent, OK? Think of it as an exer being forced to use only the language a current member can understand; please? I think it's valid and germaine here.
Here are my posts:
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Posted by Posted by OT2 on November 01, 2005 at 12:24:14
In Reply to: Re: ???? posted by James Seemore on October 31, 2005 at 19:13:09:
I started to post this on GenX, and thought better of it, so I cut'n'pasted it here:
Hello to all, including James.
I'm known on this particular board as an exer who doesn't agree with some of the occasions of excessively angry anti-religious sentiment as expressed here, although I do understand and strongly sympathize with the reasons for such feelings, as well as such a policy; with some reservations.
Speaking of reservations, I have several, concerning the content and expression of some of the things expressed by a certain James Seemore.
My view of Berg, quite simply, is this: he learned a religious hustle from childhood from his own pseudo-evangelist mother, became penile-centric at an early age and purposely gathered an eclectic belief paradigm, along erotomaniacal and megalomaniacal lines, over the years, based on, primarily, hiding practices normally abhorrent to others, even to his profoundly dishonest yet still religious mother, and then adapted his growing belief system as he was able to con and manipulate his cheated but collaborating wife and incested daughters and self-deluding sons, and then adherents to the still-forming underclass counterculture of the student revolutionary era; before Hippies became ordinary "bums".
Ever penile-centric, he conned others into becoming exact representations of himself. In my own admittedly still-Christian point-of-view, he became more and more desperate, as well as more vile in a directly proportional manner, as God had to withdraw provision, blessing, and, finally, mercy, as total strong delusion set in, in another directly proportional manner.
And, the only thing worse than an old fool is a damned fool; literally.
The degree of self-delusion, for both Berg as well as the male and female totally dedicated clones of himself (or, more accurately, drones, since only his own genitalia were primary, in his little kingdom) was directly proportional to the willingness to sear one's own God-given conscience (my OWN POV; please bear with me here) and became everything Scripture says about false prophets and their false christs, and as a result, false christians.
Therefore, I'd say that James "Still-See-Mostly-What-They-Want-Me-To-See" should have a great deal of healthy suspicion, a thoroughgoing "caveat emptor", attached to everything he says, for the express reasons already expressed about him.
Is "Seemore" your real last name, James, or something picked for you to express assumed and TFI-sanctioned spiritual superiority over others less spiritual; id est (i.e.:) anyone outside the cult?
It's not a common spelling for the name; that would be Seymore, in both the US and the UK, etc.
ANY adherence to the system that feeds the superstructure/infrastructure of TFI--past, present or future--should ALWAYS be immediately suspect--the PR-related "sheep's clothing" does not count.
Publicly expressing carte blanche approval for the cult, whatever the presentation of that approval, is no less evil than gathering funds to drive their declared purposes; both are a lie and a cheat to avoid detection as public parasites living off the labors of others.
That will NEVER be OK; James. Face it; little bro'--you are no spiritual giant--you just think you are.
And if you are willing to perpetuate the cult system on, and perpetrate it on, your own flesh and blood children, you are no man and certainly no father--you are just another cojones-free Berg/Zerby drone--better face it before it is too late.
If you must continue to waste your life, at least give your own children a chance for existential significance beyond the nasty little cult.
Even "strictly" Christian communal structures are, to me, still suspect. Christians communes will ALWAYS be suspect to me, for not only strictly Scriptural reasons I won't go into here, but, in a strict sociological sense (& yes, I have studied Sociology, as well as many other things that helped me understand what went so terribly wrong with the formative COG/FOL/TF/whatever years of my life) most communes, throughout history, have ended up being, in one sense or another, almost entirely parasitic upon the surrounding culture in which they exist, along with an inevitable, and unbearable, self-righteousness towards those they purport to "serve" while mooching off of them in any way possible while pretending to be "necessary" to their well-being--wolves in sheep's clothing; nothing more.
And you really think that's God's plan for the ages for all Christians?
Why? Show me from Scripture, and stop hiding behind your poor children, James.
James, as long as you associate AT ALL with Berg, you are at best a pseudo-evangelist in the worst Berg tradition, you depend on public misperception of TFI's true beliefs, as opposed to what 2 Peter 2 says when it warns of those who "...with feigned words will make merchandise of you...", and have, as far as we know, no other visible means of support, or if you appear to, only use those temporary, and intentionally fraudulent activities as part of a PR machine which never has, never can, and never will change.
SeeMORE? I don't think so. I say you see less than you may suppose, as I once did.
It seems that the One you claim to follow told some "publicly religious" folks a little something like, "...because you say that you see...therefore your sin remains...(rough paraphrase)".
We who have left and are still recovering will not see "less" than we understand about the great delusion and self-deception inseparably woven into the fabric of TFI.
I came here to learn, and so should you. As long as you follow Berg in any way, shape or form, you have absolutely nothing to teach us, except how to leave the cult in your own individual way.
Then, we are all quite willing to help--but not until then. We will NEVER seek a synthesis of our current beliefs and those of TFI, past present and future--the beliefs are diametrically opposed, and can NEVER mix.
Common sense, of which your TFI membership has currently robbed you, historic Christianity, and the REAL Jesus Christ will never allow this.
And, if not for the mere difference of a few short years, your children WOULD have been molested, tortured, maligned, deceived and dispassionately used for the whims of the cult; whether you are currently willing to hear that, or not; like it or not--just a few years, James.
I thank God that they never got my kids!
God gave me some COJONES, and I decided to live up to them! Will you--or will you CONTINUE TO COMPROMISE YOUR GOD-GIVEN CONSCIENCE and keep spewing the drivel you know is complete crap!
Re-read Romans 1, James. Whatever your decision, with or without God, you ALREADY KNOW the cult is WRONG, and the real God knows you know. Leave!
The cult is, and always has, even in the secret times, been run by the whims of an oligarchy of selfish megalomaniacal perverts; not dedicated and genuinely self-sacrificing Christians. Always.
Malcolm Muggeridge put it this way, "When mortal men try to live without God, they infallibly succumb to megalomania or erotomania, or both. The raised fist or the raised phallus: Nietzsche or D. H. Lawrence. Pascal said this, and the contemporary world bears it out". ("25 Propositions on a 75th Birthday," New York Times, 24 April 1978).
TFI'll always be no more than, at best, "Gospel bums", following a weak bunch of demon-consulting wankers; if you'll excuse the sadly appropriate expression. "Shall not a people rather seek after their God?".
My strong hope for you is that you do as I did: gather your senses about you, quit ignoring the obvious and start thinking for yourself, leave the counterfeit for the sake of your children if nothing else (I DID!).
You'll lose NOTHING--especially, in my view, God's favor--you can, as I did, find people worthy of your Christian loyalty, while it can exist at all, and it CANNOT in TFI, and you can "follow righteousness, faith, charity and peace with those who call on the Lord out of a PURE heart"--you know that no longer exists in TFI (that ended in the early '70s; the VERY early '70s; little bro).
Nor does individual self-determination, as is irrefutably shown on these Chat Boards; especially on the Gen eXers Board.
My kudos and congratulations to all here who have made the break from Berg's strong delusion.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)
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Posted by OT2 on November 02, 2005 at 10:03:57
In Reply to: Re: See-MORE? A cautious response to James posted by James Seemore on November 01, 2005 at 14:07:29:
"James":
You wrote:
"Do you think I would be crazy enough to post my real name? James Seemore is just a name I quickly picked for myself before I started posting.
Is OT2 your real name? Give me a break!
Oh, and in choosing Seemore I don't think I was trying to make some sort of a statement that I was more spiritual then you. That's a good example where some people just want to brow beat a person any way they can, just to sound important, cover their inability to have a civil conversation or due to a lack of brains."
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My response:
James, Acheick & All:
Yeah--what she said.
James:
You admit you picked the name yourself; regardless, and here you are making my point for me.
I, myself, picked Simon and Jonathan, at different times while in TF, because, at the time I wanted to be near Jesus, and to become like Him, despite a personality rather like Peter's, and an unfortunate desire to be like, yecch, ptooie, David Berg at the time.
I met him in Cuernavca, Mexico--little wormy guy with dead eyes like a shark, and a crappy little beard, nothing like the cartoons of a lion, of all things--more of a hyena.
“See-more” speaks for itself--maybe God is now giving you a chance to finally see what you should about Himself, His real Son, and His real people?
You obviously picked your own pseudonym, as you admit—do you even know why this one in particular?
James is a whole book in the Bible, and he was Jesus’ half-brother through their mother, Mary.
James backslid from grace and joined the self-righteous group of Jewish elites (hint, hint!) that said you had to cut the foreskin off your pecker AND believe in Jesus to be saved—-nice legacy to follow, I must say.
If you “picked it quickly” there’s a reason—most likely the one I first stated.
And, no, I don’t think you are organically insane. In that case, you would not be responsible, IMHO, for the bad religious decisions you’ve obviously made for your life, at this time.
You are responsible for these, and are responsible for your children, and will answer specifically to God.
He led me out on Independence Day, 1974, after an all-night session where his Spirit brought terror (Paul: “…knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men…”), not confirmation of Berg’s demonic pseudo-christian prophecies about himself which were actually Messianic prophecies—Israel was variously called Jacob, Rachel (“Rachel is weeping…”) as well as David—DUH! Read it & weep—you’ve been conned, like the rest of us; little bro—-by men and devils.
And this is not a brow-beating, and as Acheick said, your response to me was a cheat and a distraction from answering my direct question, which are part of a reproof and an exhortation (remember the Set Card verse in Timothy?).
You are claiming the same ridiculously self-important drivel/crap we all used to about Berg & his belief system. Quit being a wimp—grow up and think for yourself.
I invite you to have further conversations—in fact, please write me at my personal email address if you prefer privacy, and I’ll tell you my real name.
Acheick and I already correspond. She’s a great lady—intelligent, compassionate, and has successfully raised a VERY BIG brood of children OUTSIDE of TFI—you could learn a great deal from her strength and courage, as well as her truthfulness; which you do lack; admit it.
I applaud your courage in coming here in the first place—but, remember the verse in Ecclesiastes—“If running with the footmen has tired you, how shall you fare with the horsemen?”. There are posters here who will eat your lunch for the position you are taking.
I'm just trying to talk to you man-to-man.
The reason it seems like browbeating, is that there are literally NO MEN in TFI—they’re all ball-less Berg/Zerby drones.
Did you know that after mating with the drones, that the queen bee literally snaps off their genitalia, and you can actually hear the “Pop!” sound, if you’re a beekeeper? Wouch!
Hmmm-female leader uses males to increase her mindless Queendom, then neuters and destroys them--just like you and Zerby, and you are letting her!
Let’s see—a female not related to you by blood or marriage has told you where, when and how often to stick your pecker where she wants you to, with results not in your favor--hmmm.
Neat; huh? Now, picture what Zerby’s already done to YOUR cojones; little bro.
That’s called sarcasm and irony, little bro—the prophets used it—the real ones. It’s legal, and it’s not browbeating.
Civil conversations have rules, and as Acheick pointed out, YOU are not following them.
It doesn’t take a genius to believe and spout Berg/Zerby doctrines. At any intelligence level, it just takes a sucker; which all of us here were, at one time.
Oh, and the last intelligence test I took was a Wechsler Scales exam, and I scored in the upper one percent of the nation; believe it or not; higher than what Berg claimed for himself. It just goes to show you, even highly intelligent people can be conned.
You can be a smart test-taker, and still be an utter fool. Don’t be--—leave the cult, and we’ll all try to help you have the cult leave you, as we’re able. For real.
Just start thinking for yourself.
Abraham Lincoln said that you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.
Choose your category, little bro; choose your category.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo--been there, done that, got the "I'm with STUPID==>" tee-shirt!!!)
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Posted by OT2 on November 02, 2005 at 10:53:27
In Reply to: Re: yes it is very strange James posted by James Seemore on November 02, 2005 at 09:39:45:
Hi, "James".
Here's part of what you posted:
"...this site is dedicated to that very subject -- the Family, be it good or bad.”,
and
"...There are also a few people that post here that I have decided not to respond to as nothing is every said right or understood by them. They find fault with everything, even with other people who post here."
My heart goes out to you, little bro, and I mean that unsarcastically. You do not yet understand how you sound to all of us who have left and have begun to think for ourselves.
It's very sad--it means you're leaving your children with literally no wisdom to lead them--just a mindlessness and weakness of will, in deference to a dead fool, his whore successor and her new weakling "Peter" (irony intended).
This website is definitely NOT dedicated to saying "good" things about TFI. There ARE no good things about TFI, except for the "bait on the hook"--even the Devil himself is forced to use a little of that to directly attract his dupes and fools-and there really remains NO SUBTILETY WHATSOEVER to Zerby the Bee-atch (remember my bee story?).
TFI is full of needy and broken people.
When they realize this and courageously ACT on it, then THAT is good. "Halting between two opinions", as Elijah put it (the REAL guy, in the Bible), is demon-inspired foolishness; nothing more, and invites nothing but destruction.
Your magnanimous decision to not respond merely indicates your moral cowardice; little bro, if you include me, as well as most other responders, in your sweeping generalization of those of whom you say that "nothing is every said right or understood by them. They find fault with everything, even with other people who post here."
Believe me, we DO understand.
To "be said right", as you said---does that mean to be in submissive, testicle-"liberated" (read "removed") submission to TFI beliefs and rip-off practices and public dishonesty?
Someone has said that "he who will stand for nothing will fall for almost anything". TFI doctrines come in two parts: private and public beliefs and consequent practices. If you follow them, you literally have nothing to say to us, here; little bro. You literally stand for that "nothing".
There are no cult membership prospects, here, "James".
I'm not attacking individual persons, here; re-read the posts of MOST of the people to you--they're about the CONTENT of what you say, and about your apparent inconsistencies and moral wishy-washiness (read "weakness").
Yes, we find fault with TFI's beliefs and practices--that's a big "DUH!".
Leave and start the REAL life God intends for you, now; little bro.
Sincerely,
OT2 (OldtimerToo)
