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In Reply to: Re: it's hard posted by James Seemore on October 29, 2005 at 16:00:25:
You wrote:
"Well, back then I guess the question I have for all the adults is..., did they really view it as abuse? The climate of the world at that time was pretty open, kind of the tail end of the hippy period... into the disco age etc."
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Outside of the Family at the time I was in, prostitution or hooking for Jesus, pedophilia were things considered wrong by people in general in that era.
To be honest with you, within the context of the Family I felt like to not believe what Berg was getting supposedly from God which did involve serious sexual exploitation of women then children started being groomed for sexual exploitation.. I felt inside that it was "the devil" that caused my bad feelings about this WIDESPREAD abuse and that I was wrong or weak for feeling bad about it. The "it" were things like the Davidito Book and letters Berg was publishing at the time about "Child Brides" and "The Marry Time Dream" as well as the graphic pornographic nature of the writings in the Davidito book. Many of us at the time it came out were numbed. It was like 'Am I really seeing this? Is this really happening?' That was the same reaction I had when FFing started, except getting on a level with children felt worse, far worse on the inside, my conscience which I learned was "the devil". I don't believe it has anything at all to do with the hippie age or disco age other than at that time COG was started, there were many disillusioned youth searching for answers and purpose in life. In the early family days while Berg was having sex with select women and it was kept "selah", the members at large were actually living in a very Victorian sort of manner with no dating, no kissing, no sex except if betrothed and people were told that when they were "mated" with someone it was "for life". Maria who was a church family child and not a hippie was a young person that joined and immediately sought position by getting into Berg's bed after striking out with a lower top leader. Certainly not something announced broadly at first. Then Berg used Maria as a symbol of the "new" church and his old wife the "old" church. How terrible to humiliate people like that.
I got out in late 82 and was on the outskirts of the family and I protected my children from abuse for the most part especially regarding issues involving children which even hippies would have considered abuse. Like orgies with children present. I took mine away and got severely dealt with and then abandoned by the family of that time for doing that and for resisting getting into the "swing" of things. Berg solicited videos of young family women who were his type to dance naked or with see through scarves and veils to titilate his senses. He even had children do that. I was not at places where the latter occurred but I know that it did happen from videos I saw later after leaving and from reading the Davidito book describing what Berg and Zerby were doing with Davidito and others.
I know that David Berg a former church man with serious sexual addictions and deviances, and not a hippie- together with a young woman from a churchy background who wore cat-eyed glasses and was a nerd in the day, orchestrated the abuses which were practiced in tightly secretive circles initially and then gradually broadened.
First it seemed reasonable to teach children not to be ashamed of their bodies or that anything was wrong with nudity but there was no context in the wider rank and file of that involving voyeurism or pedophiliac tendencies. Berg however had already molested his children way before he ever started the cult. At least Faithy. He continued to secretly while within the family.
I did not participate in orgies but I saw one happen and left it with my kids. I felt i was wrong because my head was seriously screwed being in a "The Family" mindset.
Yes, the abuse was WIDESPREAD and YES it was orchestrated from the top and BERG and ZERBY who weren't hippies were the ones that started the "experiment". It seems to me that most of the worst of the abuse happened when Berg was trying to reach the rich. When he went from Rags to Riches and started turning out the Family women to be prostitutes for Jesus. Oh, he called them "Hookers for Jesus" and "God's Whores".
Is this who you want to turn your 14 percent in to?
Men were abused too in the sense that people were subservient to their top leader not at all the same way people are in Western society today to their leaders. Families within were split up and sex was something expected of single women and between couples and other adults. I got out before the camps, jumbos, combos, etc. where young teen girls had to "minister" to military men in the Phillipines. BERG DID THAT. ZERBY WAS RIGHT WITH HIM WHEN HE DID.
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and you wrote:
"For example, 20 years ago or so people wouldn't dream of suing City Hall if they fell over or hurt themselves on a paving stone. Now, everyone sues for just about anything they can... Hot cup of coffee, hamburgers, stretching a muscle at work and so forth. The same is with what we now consider abuse today was not really abuse back then. It all depends on the degree, who, where, when etc. Then again, you don't read or hear much from the men or boys on this site complaining about being abused sexually."
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Think about this. You are comparing the illegal sex activities and corporal punishment just to name a few things, that occurred in the Family 20 yrs ago to suing McDonald's over hot coffee?!
Regarding men and boys, it is a fact that men and boys have a much harder time to discuss or disclose sexual abuse as it is societally harder for them to do so. Nevertheless, some HAVE done so. Zerby would like us to think that sexually depraved hippies that joined the COG started the problem but that is not the case. I don't believe the girls in Thailand that were passed around for sex to some wealthy landlords or influential men were catering to hippies or put out to do so by hippies. There is loads of documentation about what occurred. What a sad thing that a man molests his own child, those that weren't molested witness it and that is abuse too, not to mention his insanity as a whole being severely abusive with his attitudes towards women and his need for control, absolute control.
Maybe Maria gives more freedom to those that are willing to send in money because just like she loved Berg's bed in the early day, he was after all the ultimate power holder, she loves her position or she would abdicate and turn herself in for what she did to her son AND OTHERS.
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They see abuse as silence restrictions, corporal punishment, victor camps etc. My point is that it’s a case by case situation; otherwise every adult could just blame Mo for their activities since they only “obeyed”. This is why I stress that things have changed, abuse is not tolerated, at least not where I live.
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Abuse was not only tolerated but orchestrated and initiated by your current leader and her main man who started it all: David Berg.
I believe this is why people here are talking to you about why give 14 percent to that kind of leadership? Why support a group that allows people accused of gross acts of pedophilia continue to hold down top jobs in the family? Go to www.xfamily.com and read up about some of them. It is not "lies" of apostates. We are former members here who know what was on the inside. We carry history with us. Someone described it like the Eagles song "Hotel California" "You can check out any time you want but you can never leave."
