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In Reply to: Reply to Sam A. posted by Information Server on August 22, 2003 at 01:15:53:
You said: "They had no choice in being born in the Family, they had a choice about coming clean when they left the Family, no matter how hard that is."
They had nothing more to come clean from. They came clean when they made their choice to leave.
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Sam: Wrong. Coming out of the Family is just the begining.
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You said: "Many young kids went through hardship during the persecution years. We were not after the kids, we were trying to help them and protect them from the Family. But it is a messy job and you just can't avoid some of these things. You have to set up your priorities. What is more important, your job, the sigma you might suffer, your resume or exposing this destructive cult?"
A person struggling just to move on in life is more important.
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Sam: No, it is not, as far as I am concerned. Both are very important!
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You are a Christian aren't you?
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Sam. What is you point? Yes, I am a Christian. Can you explain what you point is? Are you saying that as a Christian I should be concerned about the strugling former members? If so, what make you think I am not concerned?
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Read Ed Priebe's "Open Letter..."
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Sam: Is that the one to Gabutti? Can you refresh my memory? What is the point you are trying to make?
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He did not agree with how the raids took place in Argentina.
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Sam: Our responsibility as exmembers is to tell the authorities what we know. Then it is up to the authorities to do their job. If they do something wrong, we have the right to criticize them. I am not convinced that the Authoriies anywhere did anything that was wrong, except possibly in a couple or so cases, and I am not even sure about that. What I am sure about is that the Family has done a rather succesful job at making a huge mountain out of a mollhill in the vast majority of these cases.
I also believe that Ed Priebe have gone too soft and soft is not always good or Christian or the right thing to do. In fact going soft can be downright wrong. Soft is not synonymous to Christian. In many many cases soft Christianity is a pathetic Christianity.
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I can’t accept your "messy business" rationalization, in other words there's collateral damage, let the innocent suffer.
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Sam: As I said, there is no other alternative.
Unless you suggest we do nothing, which to me is not an alternative.
In earlier times one would go to his bishop and hopefully would had gotten a more spiritually centered kind of handling of the problem.
Nowdays, all we have to go to are the civil authorities. With all their problems, they are better than nothing. Much, much better than nothing.
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I wonder how many SGs, after all they're the ones who suffered the most, will agree with you.
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Sam: Some will understand my motives, some will not. It does not matter to me that much if they agree or disagree with me and the way I do things.
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You sound out of touch with reality.
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Sam: Let me tell you a couple things about reality, in particular our reality.
Let's look at the bigger picture.
Do you know why we are here having this conversation, here on this board, on this website, ex-family.
It is because of a little pittiful family 40 or so years ago that did not do the right thing.
It is because for whatever selfish or non-selfish reason couple teenagers that were being abused sexually by their father did not do the right thing.
A lot of the corruption all around us didn't appear out of nowhere.
There is someone or someones back there in the past who did not do the right thing. There is dirrect correspondence.
Sins of omission, crimes of omission, of not doing the right thing, the hard and unpopular thing, the self-sacrificing thing have opened the door to all we see around us.
Particularly for someone who calls himself or herself a Christian, this is at the very center of what we commiteed our lives to at some point.
This is our opportunity to live out our faith.
True faith is fighting and not letting go of what you know God's will is and God put you in charge of, has commited to your trust. Faith is fighting to keep what God has given you.
Making it not as hard as possible for a filthy group like Family to thrive is not living up to our Christian commitment.
We have to do our part in the fight that every generation has to fight to keep evil in check. In out case as ex-members we got our work cut out for us.
Young people raised in the group can be and in fact are just as selfish and/or self protecting as the older generation.
Deborah and Faithy and the rest of that little family back then had the choice to stop their father. It was very hard to do the right thing, and they didn't do the right thing.
Thus a cult was born.
They could had reported it to the police, have that monster of a father arrested.
I am sure you are getting my drift.
We today, young and old are guilty of the same thing if we don't do the right thing.
Some say the Family is falling apart. Maybe so. There seem to be some early signs of this.
Bottom line is, nobody knows where this thing is going to go.
It is just so totally clear to me as I am saying this that this is exactly how it is, you agree with it or not, and I am not been arogant.
I am not out of touch with reality my friend.
I am not out of touch with reality.
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You said “. ...they were part of the deception the Family inflicted on that Governentment organisation and the American Taxpayers.
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Sam: The tens of thousands of tons of food they were distributing was paid by the American taxpayers like myself. You don't see anything wrong with that?
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They should had also come clean with the host country, Russia."
They didn't hurt any taxpayers and they helped poor starving Siberians.
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Sam: There are other humaniterian organizations that can and do distribute food. It's not like there is no other alternative.
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After reading your position it's no wonder to me that so many ex-member SGs want nothing to do with FG ex-members.
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Sam: Well let's narrow it down to me. As far as my relationship with younger ex-members, some do want to have something to do with me and some don't.
I work with others if they want to work with me.
I work totally independently of every other former member.
I run my own show.I don't seek anybody's approval.
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Take into consideration that the Project in Siberia doesn't exist anymore.
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Sam: It doesn't?
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That Faithy is a poor suffering alcoholic who needed to be kept out of the picture by the people who worked with her.
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Sam A. Maybe so. I don't know.
Or maybe she left Siberia as a tactical move to get attention away from PAS after the media exposure there.
I argue in favour of this view in my newsletter.
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I heard second hand info that she was trying to get something going for Cuba, but other than that you don't have much to go on it seems in order to go after her exposing her.
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Sam: I have a lot to go after her about, her ties with PAS in the past, her possible if not probably ties now and of course much more importantly her past as a co-founder of the Family and her crimes of sexual abuse of minors.
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IMO exposing any "scams" when it comes to Family fronts isn't going to go very far.
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Sam. Just your opinion.
If all exmembers did the right thing, the FCF would close its doors in three week.
Unless there are highet powers that will, for whatever reaso, try their best to keep this Family front group going.
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Isn't it common thought now a days for people to look at just about any charity with a lot of skepticism? So many charity and humanitarian works a viewed as scams. In other words making an exposé: “FCF is a Family Front Scam!” etc., I wonder how much that really accomplishes? Even the valid, credible NGO's get accused of the same thing, people have gotten used to it.
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Sam: In answering you or other similar posts as yours, since I don't know who you are, when you make such comments as you do in this paragraph above, I just can't help but wonder that possibly you are not for real, and your motives are to either discourage, start fights between me and other former members, entertain yourself, or you are a members of the cult.
But to answer you anyway, even if it accomplished nothing or very little, we should do all we can because it is the right thing to do.
At any rate, I do not accept your pessimistic assesment.
A lot can be done. A lot has been done. And a lot will be done.
The worst thing is to do nothing, which is what you seem to feel is the right thing to do.
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IMO the SGs who have done the serious research & ground work to bring charges against guilty individuals, guilty individual leaders, to force them to give account in court is something that would be far more effective than anything else.
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Sam. Maybe it is the best way, maybe there are other ways.
It is not like we have to only chose one path.
I am hoping and waiting they do something substential, the young ex-members are in a position to do a lot of good in coming against these individuals or the Family.
As they say, the ball is in their hands.
They have a lot of power in their hands as to what they can do.
And the time seems to be right.
But they are not the only show in town.
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If nothing else it scared Zerby so much she pooped out the Vandari prophetic idiocy exposing her madness even further.
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Sam: If the ex-members had done what I feel should had been done, she and her co-workers would be getting these Vandari prophecies from their jail cell.
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