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In Reply to: Re: Exactly posted by MV on May 25, 2003 at 20:11:40:
I don't separate the experience in general, or compartmentalize it as I was able to for a time. I think many people experienced things differently in the same way that members of a severely dysfunctional family do. But they all come from the same family.
Some people don't seem to acknowledge that if they were never raped or incested themselves, it does really affect them directly. And when those things are occuring, the survivor that did NOT get raped but witnessed it or knew it was happening, comes away with a lot of feelings of GUILT whether they realize it or not. (Unless they don't have a conscience.)
What is sad is that in the fam, many of these behaviors were systematically "normalized" with "professionals" (paid well) tacking on their credentials as approval. This being the case, there are those that never would have done things that they may have done or witnessed in the fam. had it not been systematicly fucked up programing. And when they leave, they do not continue and/or hate themselves and suffer PTSD for having survived it and not having intervened. Call it prolonged temporary insanity if you will.
Then there are people that were inclined towards abusive acts and molestation etc. that perhaps joined and found those things extra nice, because in the fam. society they were blessed by God. (And denied for "security reasons".) And those people, if they left, would likely continue those basic sick behaviors. In that way, we are different.
People of all generations suffered PTSD as the result of their family experience. From the parents side, if you were incapable of protecting your children because of circumstances beyond your control, you get to have the double whammy after leaving the group of having been separated and estranged from your family, both within the group and then without.
Frankly, I am not just responding to this post, but thinking more broadly about the aftershocks of the fam.
I left the family while my kids were still real young and before the camps started. But I had alot of things that came together to make that possible. I remember praying "God, I don't know if this is right or wrong[the family and all the weird shit for God they touted] so if it is wrong, please make things so hard that I will have to leave". Now I can't tell you whether "God" did that or not, but things did get much worse very quickly. I not only experienced rape and being told god would kill me if i offended [men] by not giving it up. And this after prophecy and a devotion tailor made for me which was reading the letter: "The Girl Who Wouldn't". I started having very severe panic attacks for months. I thought I was having heart attacks. And these occurred multiple times daily. Because I had been molested as a child, the prophecy, the rape, the dealings with and my own past, all piled up together and threw me into a mode of near complete meltdown. I had seen others that had been in the fam for yrs that had broken down and never got quite right again. I decided, on impulse, to leave and took funds that were for moving to india. Another factor was that I knew that we were on the verge of going to the Eastern countries to hand in our funds after going across the border and I knew my kids would be sent away to schools shortly after. I could not bare all the things that were happening to me or that would be happening to them. I thought I was selfish and wrong. And I could not discuss any of this with anyone. Neither could I seek help about the panic attacks. I am someone that went thru an awful lot of hell within the fam. Directly.
But in ALL honesty, I have to say that I did not know the driving force behind the fam when I joined, and as far as sex went, at least on the surface, and as far as I knew, we were virtual victorians at the beginning. The changes that occured with the sex rev. were gradual. Looking back I can see it much more clearly. But in the middle of it, I could not see it at all.
I DO realize that I could have been someone stuck in the fam. a whole lot longer and had a whole lot more kids, and had a whole lot more to deal with in the way of repercussions for all of that.
I am very very grateful that I got out with at least most of my marbles intact.
I am also very very grateful that my kids do have relations with me today. Especially the oldest who suffered the most. But he was never in a camp or sexually abused. None of them were.
What the family was during the course of most SGA's lives, was by that time completely sexualized. And separations and estrangements were commonplace. So it would be natural that this would be the way that people of the second gen. would see the first gens being. It would be natural to say "How could you choose to join that fucked up group?" While it was very controlled, original FGAs were the first youth victims. Yes I said victims. And many, gradually went against every natural instinct that screams to the average person believing that to not do so would be to defy God, who had changed drastically and constantly within the group over a period of yrs.
Other concerns I had were education. It was clear that lack of education was a tool used to "burn bridges" or paths of return to society.
PD, I knew your parents in Scandinavia when you were a child and around for awhile before and after Autumn was born. I mostly knew your mom and I know that education was top priority to her. I watched her teaching you phonics and reading outside of classtime. Had she not run into the fam. there is no telling how different things may have been. But I know she did not join a sex cult and was not a molester or promoter of it by her nature. Families were so torn apart. You probably got more time with your parents than most kids did in your time. I did not. They were overseeing the school in Denmark and to some degree in Skillingsfors. "Queen Esther" kinda saw the kids as a burden to the ministry and wanted to see the kids all sent to a farm or something where your mom and dad would have been the Scandi fam's parents.
On the behalf of many parents who HATE what they became in the family, or what they were incapable of changing at the time, SO MUCH SUFFERING occured with us. It does not excuse what happened to 2nd gen. But there are 3rd gen in too now.
I just want to stand behind all of us survivors who have gotten out and say we have ALL survived great pain. Some in different ways that others, but we all came from the same SICK PERVERTED family.
If there is any way I can support a first or 2nd or 3rd generation, I am more than willing to do so. I had virtually no help getting out, and no relatives (biological) for my kids in their lives. We struggled and were very poor much of the time. It is hard for the wounded to help the wounded, and for the parents to be wounded helping the wounding children they did not protect. What terrible terrible pain. I understand someone not wanting their dad to be at a wedding. But I understand the pain of the parents too. Perhaps not to the degree as those parents do, because of the progression of horrors occuring after the time I left the fam.
Sorry this is so lenghty. With all the things facing us in the world today: terror threats, new epidemics and so on, for some, our time here could be short. I hope for healing. And that is something that happens on different time schedules with different people. And for some, in some areas of life maybe never. I may never shake depression without anti-depressants, or PTSD and inability to sleep without Klonipin or Ambien. But I want as much quality of life as I can have today. And I am proud of my kids, now adults with futures, who I have in my life today. For a long time i did not think that would be possible.
