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In Reply to: Here is a topic with some food for thought... posted by goth88 on October 16, 2002 at 17:09:48:
Goth, good observations. Here are my thoughts on some of that.
"one thing I thought about when I was in the family was how they were always talking about new bottles and old bottles and the new up and coming (now SGAs) disciples who would be the best because they would not be conditioned with the things we were before joining. It was as if we were always "less" important."
Well, especially for women in the group, whom Mo joked about being barefoot and pregnant, mere helpmeets to 'help men's meat.' And since yes, Mo did talk in "New Bottles" about the new generation being more pure and in later MLs called them "'the hope of the future" it was easy to get the impression that we were just building blocks, to be cast away when the time came. Or, as you shockingly put it:
"To me it seems akin to being "breeders" for the family group, because children were so often separated from their parents, and in many places, as in my case, it was reinfoced to parents that the kids were the "familys" kids, not the kids of their family by blood."
As you know, "breeders" is a term used by Satanist groups for women who raise childen to be sacrificed. Now whether that's mere hype as refers to Satanists, you do make a good point: Mo said over and over and over again in the early letters that people should never use birth control and should have as many kids as possible. And then yes, those kids aren't yours---they're ours.
"I guess berg envisioned something akin to the worship the hitler youth had for hitler."
Here you hit the nail on the head. Hitler considered the Hitler Youth to be the purest of all. They were taken from their parents and indoctrinated and actually did become SO sold out to their Hitler-hero that when the German army collapsed as the Allies advanced into the Rhineland in the end of the war, the biggest threat was from the totally dedicated Hitler youth who died defending the Fatherland. But thank God, in the case of Family youth, they seem by and large to be rejecting the Mo-hero, tho many do stay in the group. Mo really failed there, tho not for lack of insane trying.
"Well, so much of those ideals bothered me. I think it was one thing that helped me in leaving when my kids were younger."
Which means you have less to be sorry for. Good for you.
"But I wonder sometimes how much of the family hang-over might subconciously work in peoples lives in ways that could pit us against each other or feel like as FGA we are somehow collectively responsible for everything that happened with any SGA."
I don't buy that. I've heard it said, "If all you did was tithe to the group, you helped perpetrate the abuses of the group." IMO adults have varying degrees of responsibility and guilt. It sounds from what I've heard of your story that you were more a victim than anything, AND you had the good sense to get out early with your kids. You don't share the extent of blame that some adults do. And SOME really have their share of blame, the real villians and perpetrators and victor camp shepherds.
"We were all under the influence of the cult, and obviously some parents left and kids stayed in, including after their reaching adulthood. Any time this is brought up, it seems to be a touchy subject, but I think as ex-members, it is good to recognize what we have all been through."
Right. It shouldn't be such a touchy subject that we feel stifled and can't even talk about it.
"I was still young when I left the family. (30). But with kids and no support it was very very hard getting on my feet. And forget having a life of my own. I always felt guilty for anything that I did for myself and I think that was a family hang-over."
So you should be validated now, not made to feel like you bear some collective guilt. You went through hell. You were there for your kids. You sacrificed your life, time and almost sanity for them. My hat is off to you, lady.
"I am worth something today. I am not worth less because of age."
Yes, and you are a sensitive, caring person from what I've seen.
"I think it is good to have diverse boards, and that young ex-members need their space to relate to each other as only they can. But I hope for more dialogue between us. We could support each other in so many ways as ex-members."
Right now the SGAs strength is in supporting themselves among themselves, talking with peers who completely identify with their experiences. Let's give them space, as adults were their abusers in the group. But yes, in individual ways, we can help each other. I just don't see a massive bridge happening now, or even being super necessary. But yes, respect them, support them, cheer them on.
"This venue does not force or push religion. Another hangover I think is the conspiracy and endtime paranoia. Seeing that current events are shaky at best, it is easy to "float" back into that mentality. I remember my reactions to Sept. 11th before finding these sites. I have to remember all the paranoia of the time when The Great Escape letter, Monster on the Move, Flee Bag and all that came out. Not to mention Kohoutek. Usually America was the target and was being wiped out with comets, nukes or whatever. Since the beginning of recorded time, there have been atrocities and wars, famines, major plagues, new illnesses etc. I think I am maturing more towards my age. I saw a quote from Martin Luther King, I think, I am not even sure, and I cannot quote it exactly, but it was something like 'If I knew the world would end tomorrow, I would still plant my tree...' It is a comforting saying."
I'm glad that stuff is past. I know we know consciously that a lot of that is not valuable but it's subconsciously ingrained deep in us. Needs to be recognized and faced down. Yes, let's plant trees of hope.
"I think all the paranoia was one reason that I had so many nightmares about plane crashes (and me being on a plane going to america,) when I was overseas. I think that is why this nightmare is so common to probably many exers. I also had nightmares of water that would suddenly rise higher and higher and I would try to keep getting to higher ground and couldn't seem to get high enough. It was very frightening."
I had dreams of planes crashing when I was leaving the Family too. Whew.
"Another thing is magical thinking. When I came back, I actually believed a hurricane came and was so very frightened during it because I was sure god was going to kill me and those I was with because I left the family. I can only imagine the type of thinking people who have grown up in the family have along those lines, or have had. I would welome any posts from all ages regarding family hangovers they had, when they realized they had them. I guess the basic subject is DISPELLING FAMILY HANGOVERS.."
So true.Thanks for sharing all this.
