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In Reply to: Re: Responsiblility and accountability? posted by Post R on September 05, 2002 at 20:59:45:
I can debate this with respect, and I thank you for the same. I don't think that the Enron thing can be compared as a close enough of a comparison.
The way I look at it now, is that I am the number one person responsible for my recovery. Recovery occurs in stages, different according to individual experiences and the persons own make-up. You cannot recover if you can not be honest with yourself first. Only then can you be honest with others.
I don't hold myself, personally responsible for one iota of what occurred to myself or my children while under the influence except for where I knew I was doing wrong. Why? Because what I did when I did speak up, I really believed that I was wrong and weak for disagreeing. Where certain literature that had come out such as the S.Davidito book repelled me from the inside out, because I had all kinds of abuse sexually and physically as a child, I was taught that this was done in LOVE. As sick and twisted as this sounds, I believed that then. But I could not do it myself, nor could many others. NO one discussed this with each other, because I was not with anyone that would do this, either. I am grateful that fate did not place me in that position.
Now that I am out, now that I understand that the leader was a sick pervert and perfectly deserving of death by slow torture, IMO, I can look back honestly of what I WAS a part of. In ANY cases where I participated in anything that was hurtful to someone, if and when I am able to I will apologize to them. I am glad that I never sexually abused anyone. Even if I was a person who had not done it in my right mind, at some stage , I would find myself accountable to that person or those persons that I directly offended. I would need to apologize and face the repercussions whatever those might be. I would need to do that for myself, IMO.
I know that as a survivor of sexual abuse, one huge part of what I wanted was to be truthfully acknowledged and have those people apologize without excusing themselves. Instead I was called a liar or a slut or whatever else. THAT is extremely damaging. But if one of my perpetrators could tell me "I did do this to you. I was WRONG. It was a horrible thing and I am sorry for the consequences you have suffered" No "BUT"s added. No "but I was in the group", "but I was under the influence of alcohol.." etc. Then I would be able to forgive, but not forget. The ones I would like to see in jail are those that only say they are sorry to cover their ass and have no conscience. Or minimize or deny it completely, or just would perpetrate in other ways if I confronted them.
Like my brother, my mother and my sister.
Now what I am responsible for is recognizing the family for what it truely was when I was in it, build my own self esteem and self identity, discover my own values and goals, grow up emotionally, by utilizing whatever is available to me to do so.
Do I believe that people still in the family are categorically guilty by association? Not at the stage when I got out of it. I don't know about now except that from what I have read, it seems their dynamics are similar. People making the break need assistance whatever their age or status. Psychologically, a person is very vulnerable after leaving and would need to build their self esteem and a sense of self before they could even begin to be honest with themselves or others. It is equally clear that there are those within who enjoy the sick shit, and those are the sociopaths that are guilty within and will probably continue with the same sick shit in one form or another after they get out. I can't see how it is possible to be in Peter and Marias position or in a higher up position where you get to see what is really going on to the nth degree, and realize the wrongness and deceit of the group, but continue on in it and reap or rape the benefits of it. This is my opinion so far. I would like to hear the opinion of some who have been up there, but are out now, in this discussion. It would be an interesting perspective. Debate, I think, is just writing from different perspectives and considering what each person has written. It may not change minds. I may change my own. This is freedom of thought and expression. I am glad for that.
