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In Reply to: do you feel that all missionaries... posted by ray on July 04, 2002 at 21:41:35:
>do you feel that all missionaries... are misled by taking mk.16:15 seriously?
Depends on the missionary. There is such a thing as taking it too seriously, going on a crusade and shedding blood, figuratively or literally. It's not Mk 16:15 that misleads, it's our interpretation of it that can be misleading. I am refering primarily to the centric and neo-colonialistic attitude which us Westerners are often not aware enough of.
>if one believes they do have an important truth to share w/ their fellow man,
>is it not loving of them to try?
Depends on the person doing it, depends on the methods used. So often "sharing" is not really sharing (haven't we all learned that by now?) I am against naivete, misguided good will, uneducated approaches, etc. Too many mistakes have been made in the name of trying to help people with our loving sincerity, and crimes committed in the name of pushing our corner of the truth on others. I believe we should try to share what we have learned with each other. But believing we are being "loving" to try sounds too much like pushing an idea that you are loving to push an idea, if you know what I mean. (It's tends to a self-flattering closed system of circular thinking to justify your own self-aggrandizing behavior.) Someone on the receiving end of such behavior might not appreciate your "loving". I think there is too much of a tendency to over-rate our own presence and intervention. I believe humans are not without debilitating weaknesses and tend to let their own devices get in the way of what God is doing. I'm also ready to dump the Bergology "if it's done in love it's kosher" crap.
>certainly many unwise and unchristlike things have been done in the name of
>missions, but does that make all missionary efforts misguided?
Isn't that for God to judge? What I do know is that we often hurt those we are trying to help. I believe missionary efforts are often mixed up with other agendas the missionaries may not even be aware of. Too often spirtuality and God are mixed in with politics, relgious customs, dogmas, commercial agendas, enculturalization and domination issues, etc. I am not fond of missionaries unless they are doing genuine humanitarian work first, and not making the receiving of their aid conditional on receiving their indoctrination. Very few "missions" live up to that criteria.
>do you feel that all 'spirituality' is created equal?
No... because I believe in right and wrong. Spiritual people can be wrong. Hitler was a vegetarian who loved animals, and believed in the soul - a real "spiritual" guy.
Yes... because I do feel that we have equal opportnities to discover God in our own way. I believe that God is faithful and has His/Her hand on each of us. I believe that our paths are unique, and religion is an attempt to make 2 or more people believe in God in exactly the same way - an impossibility.
We're getting into my complex brand of spirituality and interpretation of God and the universe, so I'm going to get "serious" about being "centric", and "lovingly" "share" my little corner of the "truth" with you by enclosing 3 old posts which were in reply to queries similar to yours, and which might help explain where I am coming from (I don't believe I have all the answers or that the world would necessarily be a better place if everyone thought like me, OK? :-p) :
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As far as I'm concerned, spirituality and a personal connection with God supercedes any religion or religious activities, rituals, doing penance through BB debates, or claims of adherence to the "right" way to go about anything.
Spirituality and a true connection with God is not exclusive to anyone here, regardless of their interpretation of the scriptures and/or corner to the truth they claim to have.
We all grasp our little pieces of something bigger than ourselves, "see though a glass darkly" if you will. But the picture's a lot bigger! Actually too big for anyone of us to contain in our little finite frames. Yes, bigger than whatever great way we Christians think we understand the bible and try to expound on or ammend it.
Christians in general seem to suffer from a disease I affectionately call "NSDA" - Non-Specific Doctrinal Argumentisis, constantly splitting hairs and digging out differences.
Back to the basics, I prefer finding common ground if poosible. I find so much more in common with my fellow human beings of the Buddhist, Islamic, and even aetheistic discipines because we DO have a lot in common! If you haven't looked into this, I encourage you to do so! It's possible to maintain your own Christian integrity and learn HEAPS from other people.
There are times I hear God so clearly out in nature, with my cat, through someone's smile, in a film, in a song... once I even heard Him speak through something Ronald Reagan said :-) "
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You can always find exceptions to what I am saying here, but in certain aspects they are.
By "Godly" I mean in attitude and practices. Many Christians don't exactly have Godly attitudes and practices, and many of the so-called heathen are more Godly than Christians, in family, spirituality, health, preservation of nature, etc.
In Thailand for example, a whole nation gets up in the morning and the first thing they do is give. They give to monks, so we as Christians can argue about monks and the ungodly Buddhist religious system. But the point is they are giving out of the goodness of their heart, without question. They believe in charity, and most can be more charitable than the average American Christian.
Many cultures are against child abuse such as hitting slapping, and even yelling at a child in public is deemed wrong. On the other hand I have seen what kids are treated like in say the UK, where they are meant to be seen and not heard, and you can't even flag down a taxi if you're together with a child after 4 pm. Then there is the way German children are treated! Very different from the loving care that pervades in certain 3rd world countries.
Then there is the way they take care of each other, and there are several generations living together, as opposed to simply sending off the old to retirement villages.
There is also a kind of universal brotherhood amongst muslims (I know you can always argue about the non-existence of a sister-hood) that is so special. A feeling that all men are created equal, and they remind themselves of this through their practice.
Then there is their gentle nature and being one with God's creation. Their attitude towards sex is a lot more healthy too. I like the way many natives are more in tune with the spirit and creation, than say the average American would be. The aborigies for instance. are an integral part of the balance of nature, culling forests through regular burning and preventing environmental disasters such as the imbalance of salt tables. I have also learned much from talking with native Americans.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a New Ager and I know clearly that there is right and wrong, good and evil in the spirit world. I am not taking away from the need for salvation and Jesus. I am just saying they can be Godly too, and at one with God's natural laws more than the West is. If we aren't hung up about judging people according to whether they have Jesus, we have a lot to learn from them 3rd world cultures. A lot of Godliness, IMO.
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>It is called "Moral" not Godly
>So, you think they don't need Jesus ? They are righteous because they
>"act" good ? They don't need Jesus because they are moral ?"
More than just moral, it's spirituality
Let me start off by reinstating that I believe these people need Jesus, that they need salvation. Next, let me state that I don't believe everything that is not in the West is Godly and spiritual. I have seen and felt darkness and evil too.
Now that that's out of the way, let me explain that I have connected with people whom I found to be at peace and spiritual, who were listening to God the way they knew how, and they taught me a lot about being in harmony with God's universe. And they were non-Christian heathen.
It just kills some anthropomorphic Christian Missionaries/Fundamentalists, COG included, to know that someone might actually be pretty spiritually content without their meddling and interference. I know we have something more to offer them, a missing link in their connection with God. But I don't for one second go in with a "Oh you poor destitute miserable misguided blind ungodly lost soul" attitude to reach these people. I don't assume I know better than them what they need just because I know that I have found what I see to be the truth. I don't assume I know how they feel and understand their problems more than themselves. I don't explain their politics for them. I don't assume I have all the answers to their lives and some magic bullet to cure all their problems. In short I don't practise neo-colonization.
It just doesn't work that way. I become one and be all things to all men, and win many. By being there, radiating joy and love, the fruits of the Holy Spirit. I don't even have to bring up religion or faith. They inevitably do - it never fails. And I share what I know, and they share what they know, and sooner I've made friends for life, that love me so much they cry when I leave, and by that time some will have sincerely looked into the bible and my source of inspiration and energy.
Sure beats the methods I was taught in the COG any day. And it doesn't need inflated falsified stats like the CoG uses. These people will listen to God for themselves. I am always mindblown to come back to people I met and influenced years before and to see how God is faithful to teach and grow them. All without my meddling.
I don't even have to go somewhere as a missionary. I can just be me, being a tourist visiting all those places Berg pooed on as being monuments to the worship of man's greatness, and I can meet people. Sweet people, local and tourist. I don't even have to leave home. I can be at work, in a café, anywhere.
It's more about just being and radiating (God's) light, without placing expectations (go ahead, call me buddhist) on people to follow your little scripts on how they're supposed to go "wow, you're a missionary?! Please tell me about how you met Jesus, how you were first lost and searching just like me and then boom Jesus changed you and now everything's better, ooooo... please... about your wonderful life and how you dropped out of the system, how your wonderful family of Love saved you and how I should join too..."
