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In Reply to: I intend to open a better centralized site for ex family members posted by Craven de Kere on June 03, 2002 at 21:03:39:
Thank you for posting.
Yes, there really is a need for more consolidated online exer community resources. I see that, you see that. Question is, how do you go about achieving it?
If we can help you in any way, I'd throw my support your way anytime. I can safely say that the others behind this site would do that too. I hope our experience and lessons learned in trying to achieve what we have so far will benefit you, and help you move on to achieving even greater things.
Thing is, you aren't dealing with the mechanics of website building alone. I started off with grander proposals than what you mentioned. Project management is old hat to me and a couple of us here. In our daily work we deal with organizing people and utilize their talents, creating tangible products. And we never had to face the kind of hurdles you get dealing with this community and its needs and sensitivities. A lot of proposals get stone-walled like you can't imagine.
>I'm tired of the disjointed approach we take to our webdesign,
>it's risible that the family's website is more professional
>than any of ours.
>
At the risk of sounding defensive: this is true only in a certain sense, and it depends on your definition of "professional". For some people that is fancy graphics; for others that is anything that has a boxy frontpage newspaper column layout; for others it is a trendy taste, look-and-feel and style; for others it is (appearance of) credibility and verbal tone; for others it is the amount of content and/or the unification of the content; for others it means using the latest flash technology, etc. Much of this is totally subjective.
(I think movingon.org is pretty "professional", don't you? I may have a different approach and understanding about how things work, but I'd still say it's pretty darn good, wouldn't you?)
I believe our site is professional but lacks time and resources to go full swing - we haven't gone nearly as far as we want to. What you see is just a framework for better things to come. It may not have the corporate look and feel or standardized elements that some people consider "professional", but has a great deal of professional fore-thought and usability designs thrown in behind it. A lot of research went into every dot and pixel on our site - everything from the large contrasting menus on the top are there for a reason - the poor eye-sight of a good percentage of our older users. What makes our site "professional" is the ability to deliver punch, and the credibility and style it delivers (facts minus screechy emotional rhetoric).
Also, since it is not obvious to those visiting, I must mention that we have a back-end layer that is formed from completely customized scripts written from scratch, which we have full control over, and which are modular in nature and can be changed at will without collapsing the entire site. With the current framework, if we should decide that the time is ripe to add bold new features, we will probably never have to shut down the site for renovations.
(If you have suggestions for how we can do better what we are doing, we are open to them.)
We originally had grand proposals for a one-stop portal site unifying all kinds of resources and information, but they developed into something much less than our original goals for a number of reasons.
While some of this is due to our lack of time, many of the reasons for settling for less are simply accepting the way the exer community works -- what they are ready for, what they expect, what they can accept. We've had to work around such limitations of the target audiences and market readiness. As I said, our experience is that this is unlike any other audience you are normally dealing with.
It is not a big challenge to build a "professional" website, some of us build e-commerce sites and corporate portals regularly for a living. But a profesional website is a lot more than web-design. As you must know if you are a professional designer, you have to co-operate with the guidelines and limitations set on you by other professionals. These advisors on your team will point to numerous 'market' factors that must be considered : legal aspects, privacy issues, target audience, your mission statement or agenda, usability, look and feel, credibility, style, audience sensitivities, political correctness, etc.
If your target audience is current or ex-members, you will have to work with their needs and sensitivities, or you will not get the co-operation you want.
If your target audience is neither current nor ex-members, and you wish to collect information, you will still have to consider your legal limitations and liabilities. If your purposal is to provide reliable information, your credibility and style will have to support that. Earning that credibility and trust is another whole thing. And it's vital when dealing with this crowd.
>
>I would like to build and host a site that puts my webdesign
>skills to use by centralizing the disjointed online information
>that there is on the family.
>
Definitely put your design skills to use, and the people behind exfamily.org would be happy to collaborate with you on your efforts. What proposal do you have in mind, and what elements would you like to incorporate, and how do you see the present structure and frame work as lacking?
You can write to me at if you wish.
>It would serve as a database for information on what I consider
>to be a dangerously criminal cult and I would also like to start
>collecting the legal names of family members for litgation.
>
This depends on your agenda and mission statement of your site. Ours is to empower people with truthful information. If your agenda is litigation and pursuing criminal justice, you are treading on explosive ground -- the field will be very tricky to navigate.
Nothing you have mentioned so far is anything we have not alreay proposed doing.
What you will find is extremely sensitive/offensive in this community, is using the "D" word - database.
It is an easily achievable matter even to collect through 3rd parties 1000s of names of almost all past and present family members, and to make a place ready for collecting their legal names if necessary. Sure we can set up a user input form somewhere and just collect this data. Some of us originally thought nothing of collecting information this way, but on the counsel and feedback of many key advisors, we have changed our minds.
What we learned was that there are serious issues of trust in this community. Such a proposal raised not only legal questions, but ethical questions, and paranoia questions, etc.
Some fear getting implicated by such extensive information, having "skeletons" in their own closet.
Not everyone wants to see the Family destroyed or brought down. Some have blood relatives and loved ones still in the group and are hostage to the situation.
>I would like to know if the varied excog site webmasters would
>be interested in a better online front.
>
>If this is of interest please contact me by email.
>
>craven_de_mbl('kere','hotmail.com')">')
>
>I would be willing to pay for the hosting, domain name and put
>my design skills to use on this if we could consolidate our
>sites (especially the forum, I want 1 forum for all of us).
That's the easiest part.
Consolidating our sites is a tricky issue. Our experience is that there are many different agendas out there, and many individuals who cherish their independance and will not understand that their sites are lacking, and not serving the full potential of the latest internet technology and the information age. They don't even understand the need for better layout on their webpages :-p
As I said above, web-skills alone is not what makes it work.
I am glad you are motivated to do something about what you see, and ready to take some action. And as a fellow web-designer, I am certainly happy you appreciate that there should be a better standard for things. I don't mean to sound condescending, but perhaps I am venting for what I've had to deal with. Believe me, it ain't easy!
Hope you'll get in touch with me, and I'd be glad to hear your ideas and proposals.
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