Posted by OldtimerToo on August 09, 2004 at 03:16:34
In Reply to: Some personal salvation history posted by Carol on August 07, 2004 at 12:08:14:
Hi, Carol:
I don't think you're snotty, and I appreciate your honesty--I am a little concerned about what you said about your opnions! ;)
Your reference to your "studying lots and lots of real science...lots and lots of philosophy, theology & scripture in an undergraduate and master's degree program" was an interesting thing to read.
I have not had that luxury yet, at least not in the specific manner you experieced. I am working on a Healthcare Management Masters, and I'd love to get a divinity doctorate, eventually.
You stated that"...Unless you have an advanced degree in science, I'd prefer not trying to discuss this intellectual conflict in any detail.". Interesting.
Let us not forget that some us can be, and actually are, self-taught, what with the availabilty of well-stocked bookstores, libraries, the Internet, and what-not. You can learn some things for yourself; over 30 years!
It seems we are very much cohorts, in our cult membership, as well as history of previous personal studies!
My last Wechsler Scales exam placed me in the upper one percentile nationally for IQ; for whatever that's worth--I also have been diagnosed with severe ADD, as well as MDD (Major Depressive Disorder/recurrent/severe, so that not all my thinking patterns are at the heights of detached intellectual fancy!
So, I could probably easily match your intellectual accuity, Carol; believe it or not.
...unless I was really depressed or completely distracted at the time! Ha, ha!
Besides actually EXPERIENCING Yoga occult and psychic stuff, etc., pre-TF, I've read heavily in religion and philosophy, all the way back to the pre-Sophist Greeks and the early church fathers like Polycarp, Irennaus and so forth, I am quite fluent in the Classics, I speak three languages, understand math all the way up through differential equations, can competently discuss the history of quantum physics, such as the Bose-Einstein equations,etc.
I am completely conversant in both the hard and the soft sciences; or at least what passes for it these days!
My Mom's a retired double-Masters (Family Counseling amd MSW) psychotherapist, my step-Dad is a retired philosophy professor (a "Timothy Leary-come-lately" who got my Mom to drop acid with him in her late 40s, who went unsaved to a liberal seminary, learned faulty liberal higher form extant manuscript criticism, and left seminary unsaved and "smarter than god"), and my Dad is a still-practising consulting geophysicist (at 76!), with an IQ matching mine, who, when he got his double-Masters at Oklahoma University (he completed three years of curriculum at West Point with straight A's in ONE YEAR, plus straight A's at Arkansas Unversity), he got a 4.000--he never even missed a quiz question, and got the highest score in both the departments of Geology's and Geophysics's history. He's also fluent in Spanish and Russian--self-taught in both in less than one year! He's a petty sharp old guy!
I converse with all three of them easily, in all their areas of expertise (I've worked in the Psych industry, have been an avid reader of religion and philosophy over the last 30 years, and have worked in the geophysical industry overseas; running computers, crunching numbers, and translating).
All three say that I can discuss their areas of expertise on their own levels, and that I am an amazingly quick study! I am both a "speed-reader" (2,500 wpm @ ~ 85%+ comprehension when I practice), as well as being fairly gifted in "meta-analysis", or "speed-understanding", in several subjects. I just love advanced human physiology--that's my Bachelor's degree.
I have many intellectual and scientific interests--in science I believe in the strict scientific method, and in entropic doom; at least until Christ "changes His grip" (Col 1:17, 1 Cor 15, etc.).
I have convinced my Dad to abandon rationalist/materialist atheism, but not yet macro-evolution, and to come over to orthodox theism (he knows real science and honest philosophy "traps" him there, and is very close to accepting Christ a this time), and have made some very good progress over 25+ years with both my Mom and step-Dad, and I am quite expert in Christian apologetics, in just about every area there is. As I said, I've studied it steadily over nearly 30 years.
No brag; just fact.
But, I am not snotty; either, but I do know whereof I speak. I know what real science actually is, and love to discuss that train of thought, as well as current writings on analytical philosophy.
I have seen that the myths of curent pseudo-science are complete crap logically, and have no more linearity than a pile of jackstraws.
To those who have not so conluded yet, I say that "The Emperor has no clothes".
I prefer the demonstration of God's presence by His Spirit, to wrangling over mere "transferrable philosophical constructs".
I believe that we are all completely without excuse, concerning God's evident power and deity seen and understood in the honest contemplation of creation, and that "we can do nothing against the truth; but for the truth--that traps the COG/FOL cult, and all its members.
I know and experience God's tangible love in Jesus Christ alone, and His "feelable" presence regulary as a certainty nearly every day, now, as a maturing Bible-believing Christian who long ago abandoned Berg's blasphemies, heresies and perversions of human emotion and tortures of reason, but I do strive to be "ready to give an answer of the reason of the hope that is within [me]...", with meekness and reverence toward God, and other people.
That is, I feel, my core purpose in life.
I don't think the Christians/theists are the dummies; though--that's a pretty silly position to take; I've seen.
I have seen that the hard-core atheists have a baseless, and ridiculous religion of their own anti-scientific construction, and that their pretense to philosophical certainty is quite laughable.
I promise, I am not part of any group of "religious activists with a right-wing political agenda who seem intent on overturning the boundaries between church & state".
I do question the logical validity of giving better tax breaks to those among us who follow certain behaviors, rather than being part of a group of people in a minority actually based on genetics. The arguments I've heard are spurious and unconvincing; frankly.
I am delighted that you say that you "...have no trouble accepting Christ's presence in my own day-to-day experience of suffering, death and resurrection...".
You seem a bit duplicitous regarding spiritual and philosophical certainties; however!
I am very interested in what you said about "...I guess that means I'm "saved" if you say so. I'm not sure that I would agree with you, and my opinion about the state of my soul (if I have a soul) is really the only opinion that matters to me..."!
At least you were able to mention it very openly, regardless of your stated opinion about yours and my opinion! Hmmm.
Your two closing statements attracted my interest as well. You said:
1. "And for all I know, I'm in the early stages of Alzhiemer's dementia and my Higher Power is total figment of my imagination."
2 "It is my walk of faith to live with no more than a present trust in the lovingkindness of my Higher Power and a simple hope that "all shall be well" (source is Dame Julian of Norwich). "
I would enjoy discussing with you the subject of verification on both points of view. Please tell me more!
'Later for now (at 2:16 am Monday morning!).
Be well!
God loves you, and I do too!